Astro Hacker News - A lithium-ion breakthrough that could boost range and lower costs

7777777phil |next [-]

Worth noting this is an anode-free design. Removing the anode matters more for commercialization than the energy density headline because it cuts material costs and simplifies manufacturing.

80% capacity retention is promising buuuuut.. "near-real-world conditions" is doing heavy lifting in that sentence.

mmooss |root |parent [-]

> it cuts material costs and simplifies manufacturing

How much does it reduce material and manufacturing costs? I don't expect an exact number, but more like 5%? 50%?

apparent |next |previous [-]

I get that this can make it possible for greater range for the same price, but what about the same range for lower price? If it weren't for the batteries, EVs would be much cheaper than ICE vehicles. It stands to reason that if we can cut the battery cost while keeping range the same, we could greatly cut the cost of the EV in total.

Maybe car companies don't want to do this because they'd rather price discriminate and get every last penny. It would be too bad though, since some people would happily upgrade cars more frequently if they weren't so outrageously expensive ($50k avg price for new vehicle transactions, IIRC).

orev |root |parent [-]

Car companies already alter fuel tank sizes to get a specific range, so it would stand to reason that they would do the same for batteries. It’s cheaper for them to use fewer materials.

apparent |root |parent [-]

Hope so! I have seen a few vehicles with higher capacity trims, so the real question is whether they'd shave $5k off the price of a vehicle and give it a quite-limited range (150 mile). Some people would be totally fine with that, especially as a second/third car.

But it would somewhat complicate manufacturing and make it a little more confusing for consumers to know what they're getting. Perhaps this corner of the market will continue to be served by sellers of years-old EVs, which can have lousy range but work well otherwise.

MBCook |next |previous [-]

What does it mean it doesn’t have an anode? How is the other pole connected to the battery?

sedatk |previous [-]

I don’t want lithium-ion alternatives for better range. Quite the opposite, I’m actually okay having slightly less range if it means my car won’t spontaneously combust. This one apparently improves the safety of lithium-ion batteries too, so it’s great, but I hate when headlines focus on one thing that matters the least.

giobox |root |parent |next [-]

> Quite the opposite, I’m actually okay having slightly less range if it means my car won’t spontaneously combust.

Modern LFP LiIon (LiFePO4) batteries are pretty damn safe now, and is also the dominant chemistry in new EV batteries and energy storage systems. The fire risk is nothing like what it was, arguably your wish has already been granted.

The Chinese market is mandating this year that EV batteries prevent fire or explosion for a minimum of 2hrs after a cell enters thermal runaway, and LFP is the main driver to achieve it.

sedatk |root |parent [-]

True, but they are not as common as they should be.

hgomersall |root |parent |previous [-]

Do you worry about spontaneous combustion of ICE cars? They are far more likely to burst into flames than EVs.

apparent |root |parent |next [-]

Is this true when adjusting for vehicle age? The average age of an EV is quite a bit lower than the average age of an ICE vehicle, and I assume there is at least some correlation between a vehicle's age and how likely it is to explode (based on degradation, type of use, type of owner, etc.).

sedatk |root |parent |previous [-]

> They are far more likely to burst into flames than EVs.

There’s a substantial increased risk only with ICE cars that are at least 10 years old and poorly maintained. Li-ion EVs carry that risk from day one.