Astro Hacker News - Toyota brand Scion is back and it's going to sell a kei truck in America

6DM |next [-]

With a built in 25mph limiter, that eliminates "city" driving too unfortunately. Most roads around me are 35 mph.

There's sizeable demand for people who want to be able to do runs to the bigbox stores for garden and DIY renovation supplies and store it the rest of the time.

bryanlarsen |root |parent |next [-]

You need to complain to your congressman, not to Toyota. The 25mph limit is set by the Low Speed Vehicle standards.

kridsdale1 |root |parent |next |previous [-]

Speed limits are an upper bound.

DoctorOW |root |parent [-]

American here, in practice no. They are generally only the upper bound for dense neighborhood streets, throughout most other roadways you will be considered a poor driver if you go lower than the speed limit.

readthenotes1 |root |parent [-]

Where I live the major strode has a 45 mph speed limit and during most times of the day we only get to 35 mph but people make up for it by running the red light

benfrancom |root |parent |previous [-]

I see folks going 25mph in 35mph every time I drive!

erickhill |next |previous [-]

660cc engine at ~40 horsepower is about the same as a mid-70s VW Beetle - not in cc size, but HP potential.

This little truck could do a lot more than 25 mph if it were allowed to do so. Not saying that would be safe, and I'd not want to ever put one on a busy freeway, but for getting around most urban cities in the US it's fine as-is but would be even better if the limit was ~40 mph.

__alexander |next |previous [-]

It’s a huge mistake to limit the speed to 25mph. When this is released in 2027, Kei trucks will be street legal in Colorado. I would have pre-ordered this without question but that speed makes it useless for basic commuting or running errands.

TSiege |root |parent |next [-]

I think the strategy is specifically not going for customers who want it for those things. It's meant for farms and work sites not commuting or running errands

lastofthemojito |root |parent |next |previous [-]

Toyota doesn't seem to be aiming for your business just yet. From their press release:

> As an intentionally low-volume, niche vehicle, the KEI-01 will initially be offered through a fleet-focused pilot program to help the company learn how it can best serve U.S. customers and use cases.

https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyota-says-okei-to-america-int...

I do hope they're able to build on this, and maybe offer left-hand-drive and a more reasonable top speed eventually.

laughing_man |root |parent [-]

I doubt Toyota will ever produce a small, inexpensive pickup that you would actually feel comfortable driving on a freeway. It would cut into its Tacoma and Tundra sales, which have a good profit margin. At least, not without some other manufacturer taking market share with such a vehicle.

bryanlarsen |root |parent |previous [-]

AFAICT, This truck will not be able to pass either the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS) or the EPA/CARB emissions standards for high speed vehicles. The new Colorado rules for Kei vehicles does not remove those requirements because it relies on the existing exemptions available for 25+ year old vehicles.

IOW, it needs to keep the 25mph speed limiter to qualify as a low speed vehicle, even in Colorado.

__alexander |root |parent |next [-]

Good point.

mike_d |root |parent |previous [-]

EPA/CARB effectively sets a minimum size for trucks. Rather than having a small light truck that can do the job, you get a Ford F250 hauling a single bale of hay.

But rolling back or adding exemptions for small trucks is political suicide despite the clear environmental benefits.

Grombobulous |root |parent |next [-]

This isn’t really true. See: Ford Maverick.

CARB only nudges manufacturers, but the market’s own purchase preferences are doing the big push.

I don’t love the ford F-150 for being a monster truck, but consider this: with the right configuration it sears 6 adults comfortably, plus having a bed for cargo. Families legitimately replace minivans and other family vehicles with it, plus it can tow and haul being the body on frame truck that it is.

bryanlarsen |root |parent |next |previous [-]

The fact that this tiny engine couldn't meet emissions standards is bonkers. But that's the law as written right now.

readthenotes1 |root |parent |previous [-]

Where I live the Ford F-250 is not used for falling a single bit of anything other than air. They are in pristine shape and look like they've never been outside the city limits nor off City roads

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Liuser |next |previous [-]

Who is the target market for this? It’s an ICE vehicle, 4wd and limited to a maximum speed of 25mph. Farmers?

alistairSH |root |parent |next [-]

I have a few friends who've purchased older kei trucks. One for use on his property, the other got his tagged in NC (IIRC, it was NC). The local bicycle shop also has a kei van as their "shop truck" (another used one imported from Japan). The imports will go faster than 25mph, but they are terrible on the highway. The 25mph is an artificial limit to meet LSV regulations.

All that said, $25k isn't cheap when you can get a basic Polaris SXS for $15k. It might not be street legal in many states, but much of the usage is going to be on private property.

DASD |root |parent |next [-]

I'm in Western North Carolina(Asheville) and there are an actual number of kei trucks here. Not every other vehicle common but enough to see maybe 5-10 every day.

There are even a few businesses that specialize in these vehicles: https://www.marsminitrucks.com

80fj0348i |root |parent |previous [-]

I think a kei truck might be a better choice than a sxs if noise ordinances are a concern. e.g. utility vehicles for groundskeeping staff

alistairSH |root |parent [-]

The utility SXS aren't particuarlly loud; it's the "racing" SXS that have minimal off-road exhausts that are as bad a pipe-less crotch rockets.

kelp6063 |root |parent |next |previous [-]

Farmers and universities have been picking up kei trucks for the last few years for things like groundskeeping work. Being able to sell a brand-new vehicle with parts availability to these customers is what Toyota is trying to capitalize on

100percentjake |root |parent |next |previous [-]

Fleets, as evidenced by Toyota/Scion saying they will exclusively sell to fleet purchasers. My local university, for an example, had 20 or so Daihatsu Hijets when I went to school there, which have given way to far more expensive Ford Bronco Sports and similar. I assume the lack of parts supply and repairability of the Hijets attrited them away. Domestically producing them to keep the chicken tax/tariffs at bay and having dealer service at the local Toyota dealership will make these appealing again in those markets.

everdrive |root |parent |next |previous [-]

It also seems like it'd be a really good city pickup truck.

chao- |root |parent |next |previous [-]

A friend with a WFH tech job, who lives on his own land (with family and various critters), bought one a few years ago for hauling materials and supplies around his property.

jdlshore |root |parent |next |previous [-]

“This makes it not really usable as a daily driver, but keeps it in this beautiful sweet spot where it has a shocking number of commercial and agricultural uses.”

Liuser |root |parent [-]

Doh thank you. No excuses I can give for my poor reading comprehension.

colechristensen |root |parent |next |previous [-]

In rural Iowa I saw a ton of those little "UTV", gators, or whatever various brands call them which are effectively beefed up golf carts being driven around town. Trucks have become so enormous and expensive that these somewhat street legal vehicles are taking over for people who just need to go here and there.

behringer |root |parent |next |previous [-]

Farmers or land owners. Great for hauling around your property. Like a 4 wheeler with a trailer but road legal.

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nemomarx |root |parent |previous [-]

You do see people taking tractors on roads between farms pretty often, and they usually have the speed limit stuff on.

thelittlenag |next |previous [-]

I didn't know Scion had left...

jdc0589 |root |parent [-]

bruh

mike_d |next |previous [-]

In 1963 Lyndon Johnson added "light trucks" to the Chicken Tax as a quid pro quo to prevent the auto workers union from striking before the election.

As a result we don't get "right sized" trucks like the kei or more efficient farm vehicles like the hilux.

rootsudo |next |previous [-]

So many people here have never driven a kei truck or a wigo/daihatsu agya.

They are not fun cars, they should be cheap and disposable.

The MSRP for this in japan is less than $10,000,$6000 for the base model:

https://toyota.jp/pixistruck/

It's going to go here for what, $15,000? $25,000? Better than buying a 25 yr old one for $10,000 from a used dealer lot that has no parts or real mechanic trained on them but at that price point..

a Mavrick is better.

The amazon truck is better.

GenerWork |next |previous [-]

Can’t wait for Floridians to jailbreak the ECU and set it the top speed for max 35 MPH in order to treat it like a long bed golf cart.

0xbadcafebee |next |previous [-]

This is pretty cool. It's too bad it's just for fleets. Must be they realized how much money was going to imported Kei trucks, and that they could just... do the importing themselves, and pick up some cash. (edit: looks like they sacrificed payload for the AC/heat? only 600lbs?)

The SXS looks cool, but gearheads want a tiny Jeep replacement (which there are none of in the US), not another UTV/buggy we already have

lenerdenator |next |previous [-]

I like the concept, I just find myself wondering if the Big 3 will pull another Chicken Tax move to protect the full-size pickup golden geese.

Toyota - and Japan in general - has a helluva trade relationship with the US, but that's effectively all Detroit knows how to beat the world at anymore and they love the margins on their truck portfolios, to the point that they considered sedans and most coupes to be too thin to warrant continued production.

hydrogen7800 |root |parent |next [-]

I recently saw an old kei truck on the road with a CHKNTAX license plate.

tohnjitor |root |parent |next |previous [-]

Toyota will build this truck in Indiana.

moate |root |parent |previous [-]

600 LB weight limit including passengers, top speed of 25 mph, and right hand drive this feels specifically design to be toothless against American pickups. This is a novelty product, I saw an image of one loaded with half a dozen hay bails and I'm wondering who even needs that? This is a novelty car for vineyard owners and show pony stables. Like you'd get just as much use out of a JD Gator and they probably have worse weight distribution.

100percentjake |root |parent |next [-]

It wasn't "designed" for or against anything American. This is a purely Japanese design designed to Japanese tastes that has historically seen enough success in American markets that Toyota's market research has deemed the juice worth the squeeze to begin manufacturing them in the US to get around the Chicken Tax that previously made them prohibitively expensive and sell them to fleet purchasers. My local university had 20 or so Daihatsu Hijets running around until (I assume) parts supply dried up and they were replaced with far-more-expensive Ford Bronco Sports and similar compact crossovers.

lastofthemojito |root |parent |previous [-]

The nice thing about a minitruck over something like a Gator is you get an interior.

I worked golf course landscaping during some summers in college and drove Gators, which did their job well. But they certainly weren't any relief from being out in the sun all day. This Scion minitruck has heat and air conditioning. And locking doors. So it'll be a respite from the outdoors, as well as a secure (well, as secure as any car) place to leave your personal items.

draw_down |next |previous [-]

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justinai6 |next |previous [-]

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snovymgodym |previous [-]

tl;dr: it's for the neighborhood golf cart market